I know the thread was locked, but I feel oppressed. I do not understand why it was locked, especially before I was able to submit the post I worked so diligently. I was able to click back and copy all of it, so not all is lost. That is half of the reason I made this thread. The other half I will now discuss, for I am somewhat unhappy with my perceived reasoning to do so.
“We honor your right to freedom of speech - and welcome your opinions and comments - and your input to help other riders find info and places and people to enjoy our sport -- but show respect for others, the families and for their children who use these forums. When in doubt, only post what you'd want your mother to be proud to read. Don't test the patience and tolerance of the Moderators...and for sure, don't test the Admins!”
This is the rule(s) you must accept when registering to Texas Offroad Network. Nothing more. Keep this in mind as you read the following.

Fortunately this is a public forum on to which anyone can register, make threads/topics and post his or her opinions in others’ thread/topics. The one stipulation, as stated above, is one must show respect. The only disrespect in said thread was from a “known” member. With that being said, I am stilled confused.
What was unacceptable in the “Who’s idea was it?”thread? Moderators can give formal warnings and have the ability to edit posts, they can even ban offending members from the forums. Why was none of this implemented? A decent, although be it redundant conversation was going through the motions, and then suddenly halted because it would appear that the powers that be were becoming frustrated and intolerant. Even though forum rules were being followed, someone chose to lock the thread. The call to lock the thread was made before a “known” member began to act uncivil. So that alone will raise suspicion to some. Questions and scenarios were being brought up that apparently were not to be discussed. Then a “known” member made comment that went directly against the VP’s very specific instructions for said thread, but the action taken was lock the thread was already called. The rebuttal by the so-called “idiot” was still civil. It was even admitted that he had not called anyone out. He could have been ignored, but some chose to respond. So now we are here. These actions just do not sit well with me, but that is just my opinion. I do not care about one jump. I am more concerned how all this is being handled, especially these most recent events.

I planned on posting this in the “Who’s Idea” thread, so here it is.

If one stays civil, then stirring the pot is completely acceptable, correct? Wrong. I will admit, this may be perceived as confrontational, but I assure you nothing in my post is a personal attack. The main issue I, and I cannot be alone, have is why something that was acceptable the past two years was removed. Racers from the two previous years’ results have the potential to be much different if they had the same track as this year. So inquiring minds are inclined to ponder this, and that is the reason for this post.

The jump was taken out solely on the fact the alternate being too long, alternate being that what one has to take if they cannot or will not run the blue line. Safety was not a factor in the TORO staff’s decision to remove said blue line. Understood.


Incredibly mature of you for knowing and not trying to ride past your skill level by taking the alternates, well done. I sincerely mean that. Moving on. The other side is; why would a rider that can take the blue line and make time on his competitors give a crap about riders that cannot? Just because that rider has an advantage at this course, does not mean they hold the same advantage at others where “technical” riding is more abundant. This is also why there is more than one race in this series. And yes, obstacles get taken out here and there. This particular obstacle was taken out for a very specific reason.


It seems people need to be told more than one time because they appear to be under the impression the removal of this obstacle was about safety, where it was most definitely not about safety at all.


This is the entire point of having different properties to race on. Some riders are stronger on different terrain and obstacles. TORO is so proud to be the toughest, most technical series, yet a “simple jump” or “simple double” is removed because some complained of the alternate. Crashing or falling in a blue line is the risk of taking the more risky blue line. If the blue line was the easy route it would just be the way with pink ribbons on it.


Exactly. Why were there not the same complaints over the “extreme sections” from years past? And why are those not included this year? Speaking of, the alternate for the extreme section at Bowie was more punishing than any other if I remember correctly.


Is this not the reason for a blue line? At any other track it is. Risk versus reward, make the decision.

Well, about that…

…

Not sure if serious…

I cannot stress this enough. If it says “NO ROLL,” you DO NOT roll it. Riders get hurt when they do not pay attention. Even more serious, some of the fast riders have not been so lucky when landing on slower riders that were not paying attention. This is why motocross tracks are wide and jumps you can roll, but accidents do happen. Like I said before, this sport is dangerous.

This will be funny later in the thread.

I see the big picture as missing out on potential racers and possible organization members next year. Also, I know of one or two riders that pay their seasonal membership just to race this very property we are discussing.

Read it again sir, the jump was not dangerous. It was the alternate that was dangerous to riders’ points.

Originally Posted By: 94ruck

Well folks, the pond jump was removed due to the penalty that the alternate was( the alternate is too elaborate to make it fair.)

Well said, minus the safety part. Once again…

Originally Posted By: 94ruck

Well folks, the pond jump was removed due to the penalty that the alternate was( the alternate is too elaborate to make it fair.)

That is 75% of the internet’s purpose these days. The majority used to be pornography, but it seems people like to bitch more than look at questionable material. TORO is the only organization that races Bonita, minus the 100, so some people that do not post here might be upset as well. How many riders are you willing to tell to find another series when it is something more important than one jump is taken out?

This is where it gets funny, well to me. There is no “for whatever reason,” there is only THE reason. The one you mentioned in your first post in this thread. And yes, people will think what they want. One could easily assume that someone is in contention for a jacket, and knew that this very race, or even this obstacle in question, could be the deciding factor. The problem with this is; it was not a factor the past two seasons, why now? If anything, riders had more track to make that time up. A fresh cut “technical” section with roots and overall roughness to make up time. That is where I am drawing a blank. Why now? Why this year? You cannot go back to safety as the reason, for it has been ruled out. The pond was the equalizer, for it was what struck fear in riders. Take the pond away, and you actually have a forty to fifty foot double with ample runway and landing.

Sweet irony… Because you are who you are, you get to call names and throw civility out the window? If I pick up trash, may I berate other board members as well? Maybe I can even talk about their mothers since that is on the same level as name calling?

You are incorrect, riders did benefit from this obstacle getting cut. The riders that had no intention of using this blue line benefitted greatly from it being absent. Particular riders, well that is all speculation. Is it not?
The fact of the matter is the past two years this course was adequate per TORO rules and staff. The question remains, what changed in 2011/12 season? The track certainly did not, if anything the new cut track helped riders that take alternates.
There are obstacles that are in the normal pink marked trail that a few amateur ladies cannot handle, I know this because I have seen it and helped them. TORO is lucky because there not really any competition in the winter with another normal racing series in north Texas. Actions like these, as minor as they seem now, could change that. Look at TCCRA and TORN.
I have said what I wanted to say.

You have way too much time on your hands, but go ahead and beat this dead horse all you want. The point remains: the race is over, the jump was taken out, in the great cosmic scheme of things it really doesn't matter, but keep beating


BTW: good job hiding behind your screen name

There thats better wouldn't want you to be confused

I'm not fast but I'm slow
TCCRA Y627
TORO C827
Thanks to the people who keep me riding.
My wife, My son, SMS Racing,
and all my friends in the offroad motorcycle world

Why is the point brought up that I have no room to complain because I didn't race yet no one says that YOU, penguin, have no room to support even though you didn't race? Penguin again I don't see your signature either.

Good job "hiding."

Honda 341
Austin

sup BRAA you win. I would suggest we just stop posting responses to this thread and continue to support a great series.

Btw. I am not hiding..

James Katt.

I dont know why my signature is not showing up but just so you will know who I am:

Tom Hall aka penguin327, remember that name
TORO C827
TCCRA Y627

now you can return the favor and tell us who you really are

Now back to our regularly scheduled program

Man I thought this stuff only happened to us in OCCRA!

You cant please all the people.But you can most of us.Thanks for a great track to race on.

Not sure why no one has brought this up, probably because the staff is trying to be nice but....TORO has a board of directors that makes decisions for the club, this is not a democracy like some other clubs, we don't get to vote to change tracks or have meetings where we vote in live engine versus dead engine. Those decisions are made by the Board and guess what? They have NO obligation to share the reasons behind their decisions at all. If the board wants to take out a jump then they can do it and they don't have to tell anyone anything. I've always admired that about this organization because they operated under a "too bad if you don't like it" mentality and it really cut through all this garbage. They run it they way they run it and if you want to make changes you have to do what you need to do to get on the board, otherwise just ride. They are being nice by letting all these conversations go on and by sharing their decision-making with the club but make no mistake, they don't have to do that and frankly I'd like it better if they didn't....this mindless internet bashing and hashing really solves nothing since the complainers are usually a vocal few and the majority of the club is silent because they don't want to get involved or they are people like me who basically show up to race, accept the track as the club/promoter has created it and I keep my opinions to my little group of friends UNLESS I feel a rule has been broken or that someone is in danger....other than that these things simply represent the differences in the various tracks.

So, thanks to the staff members who have patiently tried to explain why they made this decision but next time just say "too bad, so sad". The 99.999% of the club who don't say anything will still show up to race and more than likely the pot-stirrer will too....after all, TORO is the best organization around...why would you go anywhere else (Oh yeah, to get ONE more jump in the race) LOL

Signed, Yours Truly,
Dave Sabella
Funky-Monkey
c614 (Amateur over 45, non-jumping, alternate-taking cooter)

FYI - the term "Roll a Jump" has never been defined as far as I know. Nobody says you have to "clear" the jump, however if you plan on doing what I call "baby jumping" instead of the alternate, you should get off your bike on practice day and walk those jumps to see what kind of treachery lay beneath so you know if it's possible or not to baby jump - in addition it may be helpful to have a buddy take the alternate at the same time you practice baby-jumping so you can tell if it's really faster or not. I did this at Bonita and actually found that the effort it takes to bounce off those big jumps, land in the middle, roll up the next one, bounce down to the bottom actually was slower than the longest alternate and I chose not to do it...

Hey penguin, I am curious how you edit your post but it doesn't actually show that it has been edited. HOw does a person do this? It might be a useful trick in the future. Can't be having people know that I had to change what I said . Dave, I am not sure what you are saying. It sounds like you are saying that most of the club hasn't said anything because they don't want to get looked down on by their fellow riders. Which is a reason for some to keep their anonymity. I don't care how y'all look upon me. Which is why I posted something. I also feel that a rule HAS been broken by the way. It is against the rules to cut the track in your favor. It is also against the rules to add track in a rider's favor. Whiiiich is what took place. A rider felt that it would better his standing in the points and he wants a jacket so he asked a few of his buddies that are on the BOD to get the track changed in his favor.
Even if it is deceitful and not as blatant as cutting the track it is still cheating.

Honda 341
Austin

Oh and Dave I don't know if you follow Supercross at all but somebody rolling something while others were jumping ended with 2 broken backs and a broken jaw. Probably should not roll jumps. Just protect us all and take the alternates.