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#592874 - 08/28/17 11:28 AM Too many Sprint Enduros now
2-Smoker Offline
TON Member

Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 67
Loc: Red State
A couple of sprint enduros a year was fine but this is getting ridiculous. I was okay with one of the days of a two-day being a sprint but this season we have several stand alone sprints in addition to the two-day onesies. Can we reduce this next season?

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#592878 - 08/28/17 06:39 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: 2-Smoker]
gasgasman Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 12/27/00
Posts: 1021
Loc: Pearland Texas
Just be happy you have races to attend.

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#592881 - 08/28/17 08:27 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: 2-Smoker]
RenegadeDude Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 1247
Loc: Lubbock,Tx
Originally Posted By: 2-Smoker
A couple of sprint enduros a year was fine but this is getting ridiculous. I was okay with one of the days of a two-day being a sprint but this season we have several stand alone sprints in addition to the two-day onesies. Can we reduce this next season?


That's no problem. Find yourself about 6000 acres of land. Lay out and mark 75 miles of trail. Recruit about 50 people to work sign up, checkpoints, gas stops, ride sweep and handle scoring. Pay for Insurance, port-a-cans and trophys and we would all be glad to sow up and race.
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The "T" stands for Terrific,or something that rhymes with curd if you ask my wife.
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#592883 - 08/28/17 10:43 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: RenegadeDude]
2-Smoker Offline
TON Member

Registered: 09/18/15
Posts: 67
Loc: Red State
I figured that would be the response from a few of you, we've heard this argument before. Fun requires work. I know it's hard to put on an enduro and thankful for being a volunteer and having volunteers, that goes without saying. Just saying we should stay more true to the enduro part in TSCEC. Someone can always start up a sprint enduro organization and go to town with it. I have my opinion, and am just voicing it, sorry to melt your snowflake, you shouldn't be so sensitive.

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#592884 - 08/29/17 02:35 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: 2-Smoker]
gasgasman Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 12/27/00
Posts: 1021
Loc: Pearland Texas
Who's being sensitive?
Attendance was dropping for the enduros.
TSCEC is just adapting to the times.

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#592889 - 08/30/17 12:35 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: gasgasman]
RenegadeDude Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 1247
Loc: Lubbock,Tx
I'm about as far from a "snowflake" as one can get. Just pointing out in my own way what it takes to put on a "true" enduro. There is one club I know of that pays nearly 100K a year for their lease so it's not cheap either. Those choosing to put on sprints are doing so because of limited land and personnel. I for one am glad they chose to put on the sprint as it gives us more places to race. Any day on the dirt bike is a good day. See ya at Brunes Mills if it is not still underwater.
_________________________
Richard T. Manning
The "T" stands for Terrific,or something that rhymes with curd if you ask my wife.
2014 KTM 300 XC-W

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#592925 - 09/10/17 02:11 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: gasgasman]
Kasberg187 Offline
Gang Member

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 100
Originally Posted By: gasgasman
Who's being sensitive?
Attendance was dropping for the enduros.
TSCEC is just adapting to the times.


TSCEC attendance was dropping because of the race experience, not because riders wanted sprint enduros.

Disorganization, lack of marketing and race information, mediocre course marking, antiquated scoring (until this year), and unreasonable wait times for sign up and results - that's what drove attendance down.

It will continue to decline as more sprints are added unless entry fees also come down. Less effort and less overhead should be reflected in the prices we pay.

"Just be happy you have races to attend" is also a wildly unhelpful mindset that allows for more of the above mistakes. Racers (like 2-smoker) should be able to voice an opinion without sarcastic remarks pushing any concerns aside. Especially when done as respectfully as he did.

Promoting a race series is a business, but TSCEC does not treat it as such.

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#592929 - 09/11/17 12:47 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: Kasberg187]
CaD11 Offline
Kenzo Jr.

Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 1500
Loc: Middle, Onowhere
I wish Lynn Bailey and Eric Pullen put on every race
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#592930 - 09/11/17 01:33 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: Kasberg187]
Irishcoffee Offline
Veteran Lunatic

Registered: 08/17/02
Posts: 2755
Loc: TEXAS
Originally Posted By: Kasberg187
Originally Posted By: gasgasman
Who's being sensitive?
Attendance was dropping for the enduros.
TSCEC is just adapting to the times.


TSCEC attendance was dropping because of the race experience, not because riders wanted sprint enduros.

Disorganization, lack of marketing and race information, mediocre course marking, antiquated scoring (until this year), and unreasonable wait times for sign up and results - that's what drove attendance down.

It will continue to decline as more sprints are added unless entry fees also come down. Less effort and less overhead should be reflected in the prices we pay.

"Just be happy you have races to attend" is also a wildly unhelpful mindset that allows for more of the above mistakes. Racers (like 2-smoker) should be able to voice an opinion without sarcastic remarks pushing any concerns aside. Especially when done as respectfully as he did.

Promoting a race series is a business, but TSCEC does not treat it as such.
Thank you. Far too often constructive criticism is taken personally as an attack. Unfortunate.


Edited by Irishcoffee (09/11/17 01:34 PM)

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#592931 - 09/11/17 08:43 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: Kasberg187]
RenegadeDude Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 1247
Loc: Lubbock,Tx
Originally Posted By: Kasberg187
Originally Posted By: gasgasman
Who's being sensitive?
Attendance was dropping for the enduros.
TSCEC is just adapting to the times.


TSCEC attendance was dropping because of the race experience, not because riders wanted sprint enduros.

Disorganization, lack of marketing and race information, mediocre course marking, antiquated scoring (until this year), and unreasonable wait times for sign up and results - that's what drove attendance down.

It will continue to decline as more sprints are added unless entry fees also come down. Less effort and less overhead should be reflected in the prices we pay.

"Just be happy you have races to attend" is also a wildly unhelpful mindset that allows for more of the above mistakes. Racers (like 2-smoker) should be able to voice an opinion without sarcastic remarks pushing any concerns aside. Especially when done as respectfully as he did.

Promoting a race series is a business, but TSCEC does not treat it as such.


Very on point Michael. Especially that last line.
_________________________
Richard T. Manning
The "T" stands for Terrific,or something that rhymes with curd if you ask my wife.
2014 KTM 300 XC-W

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#592932 - 09/11/17 10:53 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: RenegadeDude]
RenegadeDude Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 1247
Loc: Lubbock,Tx

Per Kasberg187 "Promoting a race series is a business, but TSCEC does not treat it as such."

That line has me thinking. Yes, I know, usually a scary thought.

So the most important thing to any business is its brand.

What can TSCEC do to improve its brand?

2 smoker voiced his opinion, I've voiced mine and Michael has very eloquently voiced his.

Let's hear some thoughts from the guys who pay the bills, the racers
_________________________
Richard T. Manning
The "T" stands for Terrific,or something that rhymes with curd if you ask my wife.
2014 KTM 300 XC-W

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#592934 - 09/12/17 09:02 AM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: RenegadeDude]
Testing123 Offline
New Boot

Registered: 03/03/08
Posts: 23
Kasberg187 For TSCEC PRESIDENT!!!!!!!!

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#592958 - 09/17/17 04:56 AM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: Kasberg187]
woodsguy Offline
Pappa Boar

Registered: 03/29/01
Posts: 5000
Loc: Huntsville
As an "outsider" looking in on the series, my 2 cents. I've ride maybe 1 endure a year, I'm a regular at TORCS. I look at the series and consider running a year for something different, all but 1 event is in west Texas or Ok. I know the endure guys don't mind traveling but for me that is too much. I understand land is hard to find and workers even more so. I guess that's why the sprint series and other short course events grow. I can remember a time when the events were more spread out through the state( and Louisiana) where travel was more evenly divided. I wish the series all the best, as GasGas said, we need to be glad there is a series.
Originally Posted By: Kasberg187
Originally Posted By: gasgasman
Who's being sensitive?
Attendance was dropping for the enduros.
TSCEC is just adapting to the times.


TSCEC attendance was dropping because of the race experience, not because riders wanted sprint enduros.

Disorganization, lack of marketing and race information, mediocre course marking, antiquated scoring (until this year), and unreasonable wait times for sign up and results - that's what drove attendance down.

It will continue to decline as more sprints are added unless entry fees also come down. Less effort and less overhead should be reflected in the prices we pay.

"Just be happy you have races to attend" is also a wildly unhelpful mindset that allows for more of the above mistakes. Racers (like 2-smoker) should be able to voice an opinion without sarcastic remarks pushing any concerns aside. Especially when done as respectfully as he did.

Promoting a race series is a business, but TSCEC does not treat it as such.
_________________________
Rob

TORCS 70








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#592967 - 09/18/17 01:26 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: woodsguy]
RenegadeDude Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 1247
Loc: Lubbock,Tx
Thanks for the input Rob.
_________________________
Richard T. Manning
The "T" stands for Terrific,or something that rhymes with curd if you ask my wife.
2014 KTM 300 XC-W

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#592970 - 09/18/17 01:59 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: RenegadeDude]
Irishcoffee Offline
Veteran Lunatic

Registered: 08/17/02
Posts: 2755
Loc: TEXAS
I am fortunate to be one of those who loves a road trip so the travel is no concern for me. I also really like the west TX terrain especially after forty years of E TX piney woods. And being very old school I still prefer the traditional time keepers and the longer ride times. For me to make a 16-24 hour journey to ride less that a couple hours just ain't gonna happen. Now that there are no guys in my area wanting to make the long trips is a factor also. And not being a faster rider has me as nothing more than a $$$ donor to the club since my chance to win or even place well in a pure speed event is nil. Have heard many others voice the same concern. I hope some compromise can be worked out, the clubs work hard and always seem to try to answer all the issues that pop up. TSCEC has earned a great natl rep over many years and deservedly so. Personally I hope the "endure" will always be a part of the events and that more of the participants will have a chance to place well. If I can find one or two traveling partners I hope to get back.


Edited by Irishcoffee (09/18/17 02:03 PM)

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#592991 - 09/19/17 06:22 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: Irishcoffee]
Jorge C. Offline
TON Member

Registered: 07/29/15
Posts: 60

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#593839 - 12/11/17 12:38 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: Jorge C.]
EnderTheX Offline
Old Boot

Registered: 10/16/15
Posts: 33
Hey Guys,

I am willing to pay more for more restart enduros! I spend a lot more on gas, parts, food etc than I do on race entry fee. I had some bad experiences with the sprint enduros in the last couple years and I don't think I will attend many more. I have so much fun on the restart enduro I can hardly contain myself but the high traffic, torn up track, extreme wait times between sessions and late days of the sprints are not for me. There are plenty of TORN, TORO, etc around me to go to for that.

I'm looking forward to next year!

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#593841 - 12/11/17 01:59 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: EnderTheX]
Airbob Offline
TON Member

Registered: 08/08/10
Posts: 55
I actually like the two day events that has a mix of both a sprint and restart. A sprint on Saturday and a restart on Sunday. That way those of us that travel long distances get in plenty of ride time and if folks don't like sprints they can just show up and ride on Sunday or vice versa. The mix of sprint and restart that was done at Cap Rock this year rocked in my opinion. I'll show up and do either because I like the variety but the combination of the two at a single event is the most fun IMO.

Steve

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#593843 - 12/11/17 07:02 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: Irishcoffee]
CowboyClint Offline
Gang Member

Registered: 09/11/12
Posts: 290
Irishcouch, When did you become a comedian??? CUZ that's some funny shit u posted.. LOL


P.S. HOPE IT ISNT THAT OLDHEIMERS DISEASE.

BRAAAPPPP KAWNBREAD RACING

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#593847 - 12/11/17 09:39 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: CowboyClint]
sparkey Offline
Gang Member

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 164
I agree with Kasberg on a lot of his points, with exception of trail marking. ive raced a lot of different venues and the trail marking in TSCEC is as good as any. I to prefer the restart enduro over the other formats. I know its impossible to put on a 60 to 75 mile race on 1000 acres and under. Thats why our West Texas resources are so special. We have had just a few on this discussion and look at the different goals we already have between us. Some like sprint, some like restart, some like timekeeper, some like grand prix. What would it take to bind the majority if not all together? I thought the love of riding dirt bikes, competing, good clean family fun was that binding agent. I have no good answers for how to make the experiance better, because regardless of the format(we have tried it all now) its the same outcome. If the children love it the parents and grandparents will follow. Look around where are the children? Why? I know some reasons. Ride in the front rows in a few of the races and just pull your helmet off and listen. Check workers, who do not have a thing to do with rider position or class selection getting reamed by someone because a kid had problems in front of them and slowed them a little, or getting reamed because of riders lack of trail reading skills. 200 riders 190 find their way just fine 10 riders have trouble and the trails are poorly marked.lol A lot of a riders experience is what they make it. I think a lot of the rider participation would return if we would get back a Muenster, Callisburg, Nacadoches, Draper and throw in a Gilmer once in a while. Those folks use to have several riders support TSCEC when we had more races in their neck of the woods. That has been a huge hit to the rider count no doubt. I know its redundant, but kids love competition, if you could get several competing in the sixteen and under classes more would want to come.

Keith Williams

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#593848 - 12/11/17 09:51 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: sparkey]
sparkey Offline
Gang Member

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 164
One more note, please do not put any more classes in so some will be competative. I am not even in the same zip code with those in my class now. I dont care, would be embarrasing to take a trophy home that had under50 and over 49 1/2. You know your slow when you are the only rider that shows up in your class and you still get 3rd.

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#593849 - 12/11/17 11:52 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: sparkey]
trouble_maker Offline
Gang Boss

Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 328
Loc: Floydada, Texas
Originally Posted By: sparkey
I agree with Kasberg on a lot of his points, with exception of trail marking. ive raced a lot of different venues and the trail marking in TSCEC is as good as any. I to prefer the restart enduro over the other formats. I know its impossible to put on a 60 to 75 mile race on 1000 acres and under. Thats why our West Texas resources are so special. We have had just a few on this discussion and look at the different goals we already have between us. Some like sprint, some like restart, some like timekeeper, some like grand prix. What would it take to bind the majority if not all together? I thought the love of riding dirt bikes, competing, good clean family fun was that binding agent. I have no good answers for how to make the experiance better, because regardless of the format(we have tried it all now) its the same outcome. If the children love it the parents and grandparents will follow. Look around where are the children? Why? I know some reasons. Ride in the front rows in a few of the races and just pull your helmet off and listen. Check workers, who do not have a thing to do with rider position or class selection getting reamed by someone because a kid had problems in front of them and slowed them a little, or getting reamed because of riders lack of trail reading skills. 200 riders 190 find their way just fine 10 riders have trouble and the trails are poorly marked.lol A lot of a riders experience is what they make it. I think a lot of the rider participation would return if we would get back a Muenster, Callisburg, Nacadoches, Draper and throw in a Gilmer once in a while. Those folks use to have several riders support TSCEC when we had more races in their neck of the woods. That has been a huge hit to the rider count no doubt. I know its redundant, but kids love competition, if you could get several competing in the sixteen and under classes more would want to come.

Keith Williams


AMEN 100%

Marc
_________________________
2014 Husaberg TE300

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#593850 - 12/11/17 11:52 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: sparkey]
trouble_maker Offline
Gang Boss

Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 328
Loc: Floydada, Texas
Originally Posted By: sparkey
One more note, please do not put any more classes in so some will be competative. I am not even in the same zip code with those in my class now. I dont care, would be embarrasing to take a trophy home that had under50 and over 49 1/2. You know your slow when you are the only rider that shows up in your class and you still get 3rd.


Some classes are going away real soon!!
_________________________
2014 Husaberg TE300

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#593853 - 12/12/17 10:24 AM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: Irishcoffee]
CowboyClint Offline
Gang Member

Registered: 09/11/12
Posts: 290
Irishcouch, When did become a comedian?? Are is it AlzTimers?? some funny shit you post.


Edited by CowboyClint (12/12/17 10:39 AM)

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#593854 - 12/12/17 01:06 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: CowboyClint]
Irishcoffee Offline
Veteran Lunatic

Registered: 08/17/02
Posts: 2755
Loc: TEXAS
Originally Posted By: CowboyClint
Irishcouch, When did become a comedian?? Are is it AlzTimers?? some funny shit you post.
Point out any errors I made. You gonna climb in my truck and travel 20 hours with me to ride maybe 2.5? Or continue dirt biking's greatest sandbagging career? Huh?

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#593855 - 12/12/17 01:57 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: Irishcoffee]
trouble_maker Offline
Gang Boss

Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 328
Loc: Floydada, Texas
Good news, next year there's only 3 sprint enduro's on the schedule out of 14 events.
Marc
_________________________
2014 Husaberg TE300

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#593856 - 12/12/17 02:36 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: trouble_maker]
pentonrider Moderator Offline
Gang Boss

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 395
Loc: Nacogdoches, Texas
Clint and Irish play nice!
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#593857 - 12/12/17 03:14 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: pentonrider]
Irishcoffee Offline
Veteran Lunatic

Registered: 08/17/02
Posts: 2755
Loc: TEXAS
Nope, the gloves are off. I am having a long talk with his Mother and Dad this evening. An interdiction is in order. Been trying to salvage him since he was messing his pants on the tank of his Dad's scooters but he has taken a turn to the dark side since he turned FIFTY. By the way, don't get downwind of him, he still has a "control" issue!

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#593862 - 12/12/17 09:28 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: trouble_maker]
EnderTheX Offline
Old Boot

Registered: 10/16/15
Posts: 33
Originally Posted By: trouble_maker
Good news, next year there's only 3 sprint enduro's on the schedule out of 14 events.
Marc


If that is true this is great news!!! I may try to get a full year in. Really looking forward to it.

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#593863 - 12/12/17 11:22 PM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: trouble_maker]
RenegadeDude Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 1247
Loc: Lubbock,Tx
Originally Posted By: trouble_maker


Some classes are going away real soon!!


Just make sure to create an I can't beat Daryl, Sam, David or Jeff but I still want a trophy class.
Maybe name it the TyOneOn Class.
It can be for the fastest slow guys out there!
_________________________
Richard T. Manning
The "T" stands for Terrific,or something that rhymes with curd if you ask my wife.
2014 KTM 300 XC-W

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#593864 - Yesterday at 09:48 AM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: RenegadeDude]
trouble_maker Offline
Gang Boss

Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 328
Loc: Floydada, Texas
Originally Posted By: RenegadeDude
Originally Posted By: trouble_maker


Some classes are going away real soon!!


Just make sure to create an I can't beat Daryl, Sam, David or Jeff but I still want a trophy class.
Maybe name it the TyOneOn Class.
It can be for the fastest slow guys out there!


There's going to change in the Master Class for sure! LOL
_________________________
2014 Husaberg TE300

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#593865 - Yesterday at 11:03 AM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: trouble_maker]
Older & Slower Offline
TON Member

Registered: 10/29/10
Posts: 78
Loc: Clovis, New Mexico
Renegade Dud, looks like I'll be riding the girls class just so you don't ever trophy again!!!!
You're just jealous cause Lyle Lovett is MY friend.
_________________________
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1970 International 856
1968 Honda Z50
2006 Navajo Nations Goat Roping Champion
2001 Eastern New Mexico Intramural Three Day Poker Run Champion
1972 Curry County Night Enduro 2ND Place

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#593866 - Yesterday at 11:06 AM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: Older & Slower]
Older & Slower Offline
TON Member

Registered: 10/29/10
Posts: 78
Loc: Clovis, New Mexico
Just let us know what your doing with the classes before the season starts so we will know which series to ride.
_________________________
I don't like the Huck-A-Bucks, but I do like the Hippy Chicks,FUN ROW!!
1970 International 856
1968 Honda Z50
2006 Navajo Nations Goat Roping Champion
2001 Eastern New Mexico Intramural Three Day Poker Run Champion
1972 Curry County Night Enduro 2ND Place

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#593867 - Yesterday at 11:19 AM Re: Too many Sprint Enduros now [Re: Older & Slower]
RenegadeDude Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 1247
Loc: Lubbock,Tx
Originally Posted By: Older & Slower
Renegade Dud, looks like I'll be riding the girls class just so you don't ever trophy again!!!!
You're just jealous cause Lyle Lovett is MY friend.


You'll look good in a short skirt. Just, please, don't bend over in front of me.
_________________________
Richard T. Manning
The "T" stands for Terrific,or something that rhymes with curd if you ask my wife.
2014 KTM 300 XC-W

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