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#586883 - 02/21/16 11:07 PM Question about "move up" points.
TC&R Offline
TON Member

Registered: 10/30/14
Posts: 69
Loc: TEXAS
Out of sheer curiosity, what is the reasoning behind not allowing a rider to carry over any of their points if they move up in class during the series? Personal example, my pee wee son was an amateur rider at tccra last year, and fell in the upper middle portion of the ranks. He registered for amature in Toro, but within two races discovered he needed to be up in the intermediate. He had no interest in riding a slower class, he wants to be challenged at all times and continue to work on his skills. But, that meant he took himself completely out of the running for any year end awards no matter how hard he practice or how well he plays the rest of the series. This is not a complaint, it's a question. Being new to the Texas cross country scene I'm trying to learn all that I can and curious as to why this is the rule?

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#586884 - 02/22/16 03:32 AM Re: Question about "move up" points. [Re: TC&R]
TripleT Moderator Offline
Software Guru

Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 151
Loc: TX
This is mainly to persuade riders to sign up for the proper class, by reducing the chances of having "sandbagging". By forcing the riders to pick the right class from the beginning, and backing up our promotions mid season, it keeps the playing field as level as possible, in theory.

With that said, there are always unique cases, such as the one your son was in this year. We appreciate the feedback, and will look into voluntary promotions as a separate case for next year. For this season, however, we have to treat the cas by how our rules are outlined, to keep our results and standings consistent with the system we have in place.

In either case, in the future, if points would be carried over, they would not be 1 to 1, ie wins would not carry from one class to another, as it would defeat the purpose of racing in the proper class (which is the primary motivation for not carrying points - points are currently held within the class/competition that they were earned against).

Thank you for asking us about this, as we genuinely take feedback to heart when reviewing items for upcoming seasons.
_________________________
-Tyler Ruckdeschell A129/N29/29R, 29O (@29TRuck)
TORO BOD - President/Scoring Supervisor/IT guy
2016 HUSKY FC350 & 2016 KTM 350 XC-f
Thanks to:
Autism MX
Tucker Rocky (DC 46, you rock!) - Couldn't do it without you guys!
Vita Brevis Clothing - instagram @vitabrevis
RaceTech
Dunlop
FMF
No Toil
The family - KRuck, Jean Ruck, and Jo Ruck
And all my friends!

This is why I do it!

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#586886 - 02/22/16 03:55 AM Re: Question about "move up" points. [Re: TripleT]
Chuckl Offline
Gang Daddy

Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 536
Loc: Aubrey, Texas
Maybe this is a good time to ask a related question...How can someone that has won the jacket in the same class for 3 or more years, still being allowed to race that class?
Understand totally about trying to keep the playing/racing field equal and that's great but how is it keeping things equal by letting a 3 time jacket winner race the same class??
I think you have a great idea Tyler, if you move up volunteraly, let the points transfer, not on a 1 to 1 matrix but something that would be fair to everyone....!!
Just my two cents!!
_________________________
TCCRA H611
TORO B611
2014 KTM 300 XC-w Six Days
2009 KTM 400 XC-w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jThrfVY3CH4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5gSrG4oTko

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#586887 - 02/22/16 04:24 AM Re: Question about "move up" points. [Re: Chuckl]
TripleT Moderator Offline
Software Guru

Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 151
Loc: TX
Definitely good input for the next season. I agree with multi year winners being in the same class - however, some people do find a spot where they do not fit into the class ahead of them, while being faster than their own class (but it is something we are seeking to adjust, and maybe it has more to do with the current riders not being matched to our current class skill/ages ). That has been something we've looked at in the past!
_________________________
-Tyler Ruckdeschell A129/N29/29R, 29O (@29TRuck)
TORO BOD - President/Scoring Supervisor/IT guy
2016 HUSKY FC350 & 2016 KTM 350 XC-f
Thanks to:
Autism MX
Tucker Rocky (DC 46, you rock!) - Couldn't do it without you guys!
Vita Brevis Clothing - instagram @vitabrevis
RaceTech
Dunlop
FMF
No Toil
The family - KRuck, Jean Ruck, and Jo Ruck
And all my friends!

This is why I do it!

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#586888 - 02/22/16 04:48 AM Re: Question about "move up" points. [Re: TripleT]
Chuckl Offline
Gang Daddy

Registered: 11/02/10
Posts: 536
Loc: Aubrey, Texas
They find that spot because they study/know how to game the system/bump rules. Its not rocket science dude... ya just have to look at the results from past races and.
Back to the move up points, if a rider volunteers to move up, his points should transfer but only at a 2/3 percent ratio or some equitable ratio...
I'm sure you guys can figure that ratio out!!
Thanks for all the hard work TORO puts in to give everyone a series to race!!


Edited by Chuckl (02/22/16 01:13 PM)
_________________________
TCCRA H611
TORO B611
2014 KTM 300 XC-w Six Days
2009 KTM 400 XC-w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jThrfVY3CH4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5gSrG4oTko

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#586889 - 02/22/16 10:52 AM Re: Question about "move up" points. [Re: Chuckl]
TC&R Offline
TON Member

Registered: 10/30/14
Posts: 69
Loc: TEXAS
Interesting information, & I appreciate the reply. I assumed the policy was based on preventing sandbagging, was just curious to hear how Toro arrived at the decision. I think it's definitely a two-sided discussion, voluntary move ups are completely different from a bump when someone is clearly out of their class and not reaching out to move up on their own. My personal belief is that a percentage such as Chuck suggested is the best option, I believe some other serious go at 50%. All that said, I would be asking the question even if my own son was not involved. To these kids, this sport is just as serious, just ad impactful as it is for the big boys and girls. Everything is tied to their ability to race, practice time, grades, behavior at home. If they don't stay up then the bike gets put up, at least at my house. So, I'm well aware it's probably a rare situation, but it is tough to swallow when they put in the work and cannot reap the benefits. All said and done we have had fun racing at Toro, not sure we will be repeat competitors but it was enjoyable and certainly not a waste of time. Thank you for all the work...

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#586895 - 02/22/16 03:43 PM Re: Question about "move up" points. [Re: TC&R]
TripleT Moderator Offline
Software Guru

Registered: 03/08/10
Posts: 151
Loc: TX
We appreciate the input, and we will certainly look more into it for the future. Thank you for your time with our series!

And thank you for the appreciation, Chuck - it's definitely been a unique year, with quite a bit more effort involved than ever before. We are striving for continuous improvement, for sure!
_________________________
-Tyler Ruckdeschell A129/N29/29R, 29O (@29TRuck)
TORO BOD - President/Scoring Supervisor/IT guy
2016 HUSKY FC350 & 2016 KTM 350 XC-f
Thanks to:
Autism MX
Tucker Rocky (DC 46, you rock!) - Couldn't do it without you guys!
Vita Brevis Clothing - instagram @vitabrevis
RaceTech
Dunlop
FMF
No Toil
The family - KRuck, Jean Ruck, and Jo Ruck
And all my friends!

This is why I do it!

Top



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