This is Scott Bailey & I have a question. Whats up with the lack of help on the big hill during the last race. There was a lady (I wont mention her name because people that know the Baileys tend to get in trouble) that stayed on that hill basically by herself helping get bikes up the hill & didnt leave until the sweeper showed up. Why you ask????? Because she was the only one there to help. This was my first time to meet her & i was very impressed with her dedication to the sport. Sooooooo to the people that just stood on the hill and watched maybe you could learn a little something, get off your but and help out or go find some staff to help either way make yourself useful. Im not trying to be too negative, but this was a problem area with no staff or help & the issue needed to be addressed. Scott Bailey A 419 VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was told by a staff member it wasn't his blaking job......

I'm wondering the same thing, Scott. I heard the same thing, Liss.
I am very dissappointed and very upset as well. I will address this situation at a later date.
Big thank you to all the friendly spectators out there helping - people like the Strawbriges, my husband, my son, the lady Scott is talking about and many others.

that customer service with a smile

I believe the word he used was F***ing job.

scott, not to criticise anyone, but you know i will and do help anytime i see sopmeone in trouble as do others

thats nice

Most will! I know my family along with several others did. Including guys who raced in the expert program who were out there during them mini's and ladies program to help when they could have been resting for their race.
Needless to say I was dissapointed in some peoples actions and words....

Well I will stand up and say that was my fiance' and I am dang proud of her. For her and Scott to be the only one's out there helping and making sure if anyone else got hurt, there would be a way to get help, is ridiculous. I was totally shocked, no, pissed, on my 4th lap to see just Scott and my fiance' monitoring this section (which was where one rider ended up being a pin cushion for a peg). Why was this hill covered for the expert race (the ones who really shouldn't need it) but not the amateurs? And why is it the medics have plenty of extra radios to be used for a race and only a handful distributed?
I love the fact that the TORO races are difficult and somewhat extreme at times, but with that should also come the extra measures to make sure it is also safe and well monitored in the event that something bad does happen and medics are needed. I don't have the answers or solutions, but I am willing to help in anyway I can.

There are alot of people that are willing to help if they know about it. The word was not put out like it should have been. I realize there was more than one bad area and that there were just a few people helping in each of them. We have to have challenging tracks to make us better riders but we have to get out and watch,cheer,support,and help our fellow racers. On another note, If you cant work the track without cussing at someone then you shoudnt be out there.Scott Bailey A419 VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey David, a girl that likes to ride and can push that many bikes up a hill,I think you got a keeper. By the way Connie said she wanted a 450 with a rekluse for a wedding gift. Scott Bailey A419 VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (DONT BE SCARED TO VOICE YOUR OPINION IN A CIVAL MANNER , THINGS WILL CHANGE)

Thanks Scott. I think Kiwi's 450 spoiled her when she took it back to camp. So now there is a CRF250X coming in the next week with a button and yes a Rekluse. Gonna keep her happy!!

First race Denton? Scott Bailey A419 VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We hope so. For sure at least practice.

Scott, Thanks for all the nice things you said about me, but I was not the only one on that hill. You were running back and forth on a broken foot helping everyone you could. Until that day I was always too worried I would get in the way to help, but after watching you do it all alone I couldn't just stand there and watch. I'm just glad I showed up when I did and was able to help.
As for Kiwi's 450, although that was a blast to ride... I think I'll stick with the CRF250X that David's getting me this week. See you at Denton!

I know without a doubt that Chris and his whole Medic Team will do what ever they need and are asked to do for each and everyone one of us.

ALL official radios are supplied by TORO for all TORO events.

Chris Gryder

I find it hard to believe that one our staff members said that to anyone, Todd Slavik and I went right after our race too the ridge section and made it passable for the short course race, moving rocks and pilling rocks up where needed and helping everyone threw for the first lap and 1/2. If you think help has needed on a hill then maybe you should go help. We are volunteers here so do your part and volunteer if you see a problem. Be someone who helps not complains. We are here for FUN remember!

The reason David asked the question about the radios is because when my friends and I went to check on Kiwi there were probably 10 or more radios just sitting in the trailer. We asked about them and the medic said they always had them, but was not sure why they were not being used. I mentioned this to David. Neither David nor I were saying anything negative about the Medics. We think they are GREAT and do a great job. We were only wondering why their radios were sitting in the trailer when they would be much more help on the track.
Kiwi came up to me and asked if I had a radio or if I could find someone who did. He told me he was bleeding. I was expecting a small cut, what I saw was blood dripping thru his already soaked pants. There was not a radio anywhere to be found on the hill. Since we could not call for a medic, we loaded him up on another spectators 4-wheeler and they hauled him up and got him help. It seems the more people with radios, the quicker Medics can be called... hence the question.

A -I think you know who said those things, B- I was helping,& C- as far as the ridge goes that was one little section that for most of the expert race (if not all of it) two ladies (Steve L. sister ,& heavy A riders mom, sorry didnt know your name) took care of. By the way thanks for all of your hard work. Scott Bailey A419 VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! P.S What about those donuts on fri. night Hayden?????

I am a fairly new member, and usually don't post on the forum (I do read them all).
TORO has a small staff, they not only work the entire weekend of the race (first ones there and last to leave), but get the track ready before race weekend, do the recon, go to the muddy nasty places on the track to reroute so we can race. I think these folks work their butts off (for NO PAY), and while the staffers response could have been worded differently. He or she had probably been there since Friday night, tired, cold and just didn't think. Perhaps we could fine him/her half his/her salary for the rest of the season.
This is just my 2 cents take it for what it's worth, but if I were giving up ALL my weekends so other people could have a good time, I might not be to accepting of criticism.
Bill Loftin

I actually brought up this same subject last season. I was at the hill on the last race and was really suprised at the lack of people. Me and my husband must have picked up a dozen riders. It was kinda scary. I felt for all the riders, and thought the whole thing was kinda of crazy/dangerous. With the limited amount of officals, I can see how they would not be able to be at all places at all times. I think they try to put on a good race, and try to really hard to make sure everyone is safe. Just like with any other org. it really comes down to racers takin care of racers. We all need to be there for each other. Unfortunatly, I think everyone went home.....

Thanks Bill! I think I can speak on behalf of all of the staff - we really, REALLY appreciate your comment.

Well he did and I was....I was timing it to several different points to make sure they made it through

I know how much work goes into a race weekend for the staff and I thank them for it. However, It does not give them the right to treat people like that.Scott Bailey A419 VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think safety is the biggest thing here. Its just a thought, but what about asking for volunteers to carry the extra radios and be stationed at "risky" points (kinda like flaggers).

You are correct Chris"THE MEDIC"does have A LOT of radios I MEAN A LOT he has back-up radios for his back-up radios. LOL. I have become good friends with the Whole Medic Family. I can't speak for Chris but I'm willing to bet if the officials at ANY series asked him if he would hand radios out to certain approved people he wouldn't mind at all.

I knew David didn't mean anything by it"Just Got my Friends Back"and agree with David I think it would be a wise and helpful thing.

By the way I always have a radio that only allows the Medics to talk with me and I with them the reason I have it I help them if a helicopter is called in, so if at any time you can't find a Medic or official let me know I'm easy to find I'm "THE CHIEF lol"at Big Hals.



Chris Gryder

We are all here just having fun, and I'm sorry about the Fri. night thing, the bad karma got me on Sunday for that. Wasn't directing anything toward you Scott, just saying

Hard to believe or not - it happened! Believe it! You will not find any 2 people more honest than Liss and Chad. They saw it. They heard it.

This is very disappointing to me, Liss.

I had just gotten done racing and I was preparing for the next one when you all came off the course. I stopped everything I was doing to listen to everything you all had to say about the issue - YET you still do not give me the respect nor the time to look into it fully, get the other sides of the story, and get back to you before you go this route. VERY disappointing.

Jenn

It appears that there are two issues here, I would like to address the issue of rendering aid from the view of a spectator. I was on the hill for a period of time for all three heats, and did end up helping a few riders when I could. Prior to making it up the hill, I must say that I overheard a conversation at the bottom regarding whether it was right for spectators to help the riders up the hill.

I have been to all of the TORO races and rider's meetings this season, and remember being told at Bulcher that the rule book basically states that aid can be given if the rider is trapped or injured. I also remember hearing that "the rider is responsible for picking their poison, and the consequences that come with that." I guess as a spectator, I got the impression from that day that helping during a race was taboo, and could cost the rider the race. I have seen many riders being helped this season, but I would like to point out that as a spectator, it is very conflicting for us as to whether we are allowed to help or not.

No what was said in the meetings is if a rider decides to go the harder way instead of the alt which is longer no one can help the rider that decided to go the harder way unless he is hurt. I was on the hill the first two races helping everyone and I helped 8 or more riders, I told my girlfriend that if every rider that was helped up that hill during their race would come back and help atleast one rider then we would be fine. I raced the last race and also was suprised by how many people were not up there helping.

I wasn't there so I probably shouldn't comment but I've been around racing since the early 70's with a lot of years racing in Ohio, WV and KY. Greasy difficult hills were the norm and no promoters ever had staff stationed on them. Sweepers were unheard of. Unwritten code said if somebody helped you, you helped them back or at least waited to make sure they cleared the section.

Where is it written or implied that everyone deserves help in a RACE? If a staffer said it wasn't his job, I tend to agree. Yes, safety is an issue but from all my years in this sport I can confidently say that TORO puts on some of the safest events I have ever seen. And they are all VOLUNTEERS!

Years ago I was involved with a volunteer organization that dealt with the public and many of the members wore buttons that said, "Don't yell at me, I'm a volunteer." Maybe the TORO folks should get some of those!

Below is a post I made earlier this season on this very topic on assistance. Pretty much just replace the word "mud" with "hill" and it now applies to what we did last race.

Anyway... here is my copy/paste:

**********************

Good Lord... of course spectators can help folks get going again, if they want. As a racer, you can stop to help other riders get out from under their bike and if you are feeling especially nice - you can even stop to help them get un-stuck from the mud, if you want.

If someone is hurt, it is expected to stay with the injured rider, make the area safe as possible for them and get help immediately. The best way to do this is to send someone to find a staff member with a radio or to send someone to the scoring trailer where you know staff will be. Please DO NOT PANIC - use caution and safety to get help. You don't want to cause another accident in the process.

If you are just stuck and you are not hurt, I wouldn't count on a lot of assistance from people racing and some spectators just don't want to get all up in the mud either - that's their choice. Eventually... if you buried it and can't get out, the sweeper will be around to get you assistance and get you back to camp.

Regarding the Enduro sections... AGAIN - It is not "illegal" to help - there is no penalty for it - it is just a procedure we've asked of all to help eliminate too much assistance in that area and problems with too many spectators clogging up that part of course.

We had issues with the area in the past - an example of some of what was happening was... a person would tump over and 10 people would all freak out, jump in the middle of the section to help someone who doesn't need ALL THAT help and clog everything up for all the other riders entering the section. This starts a bigger pileup or a bunch of riders bottlenecked up at the beginning of the section waiting for a clear path. Momentum is key through the section so we want to do what we can to keep it as clear of spectators as possible and let the riders make the obstacles on their own. Make sense?

At Bowie we had plenty of staff and promoter staff helping in the area. At BSGP, with all the other work going on because of the mud… we got a little short-handed particularly during the long program (most of our staff and promoter were racing) so a few spectators helped out to keep things moving, which was appreciated.

On a somewhat related note to this topic and as a reminder to all - the rider's meetings at TORO are mandatory. If you decide to not attend, you are still responsible for knowing the information given.

Thank you,
Jenn

You came here of your own accord and had ample time in practice to be sure you could safely navigate your way up any obstacle on the course. It's a RACE, and points are at stake.

Was anyone there to help me when my bike failed to start at the line? NO, I started 30 seconds down, and passed at least 6 guys on the first hill that were hung up.

Ride at your own risk, I got some help in a mud hole from some fellow entrants, and I thank them for it. However, unless I'm trapped or hurt I NEVER expect assistance from staff or a spectator because of my lack of talent.

I realize it's a family forum and environment at the races... but he's right. It's not his %$#*@! job.

jenn i remember that post , i usually help some riders at every race and i have never felt that i was discouraged in doing that, and i think that we all know that the staff cannot be in every place on the tract all the time, sometomes we as spectators need to step up and help and i think that this is for the most part true. for example a rider came by sunday and told me that someone had broken her chain so i went loking for her. i dont think that i was an exception i like to think if someone else had been told that they would have the same thing.

It is conflicting and I understand your confusion and not knowing to help or not. Personally (as a spectator or series director) I help if someone is clearly trapped and could be injured. I also help if the rider is making every effort to help themselves. When I'm racing - I help if someone helps me or if it is necessary to get through an area. If one person is clogging a line, I will get off my bike and run up to help that person get out of the way quickly so the others and I can get by and continue racing.

It is the ones that stand there doing nothing to solve their own problems that I will walk away from.

Generally speaking - You can not race a dirt bike and expect people to be at all the areas on the course you have trouble with and expect to have them do it for you. You have to get yourself through it. If you are not to that level yet, you may have to take a DNF until you get to that level. Take lessons, go to Muenster on the off weekends and practice this stuff... that is the way to improve and make the racing less frustrating and more fun.

Jenn

Yes - we had that call out on the radio to look for her, as well. THANK YOU! You did a heck of a job this weekend and thank you for all your work and for coming over to the medic camp to get help for a rider down!

Jenn

Me too, Jen...........

KTMracer19, finally you don't get in trouble for starting, what I think was a much needed topic. I'm gonna take the bashing for this one.....
I did not and will not mention the staff guys name so don't ask. I am in hopes that something was learned from this and go on from that. This is my first bad experiance with a staff member. Most of my toro racing experiances have been positive.
And yes Jenn I gave you plenty of respect after I got you to listen to me. Ask Chad. He said should we say something to him? I said no lets handle this properly, I'll talk to Jenn.
So bash away!

I was trying to listen to what THE RIDER INVOLVED had to say, but you kept speaking over her. I listened to everything, figured out who all was involved and plan to speak to that rider and the staff member. You DID NOT GIVE ME THE RESPECT TO DO MY JOB, LISS.

Not everything is a huge drama that plays out on these forums. We handle these things like adults. You gave me your side as a witness, that is where your part of this ends.

Jenn

Melanie,

If you were there, I would appreciate a phone call (214-418-8952) with a first-hand account of what happened. If you were not there, I would appreciate you removing your post above.

Thank you,
Jenn

Time to lock this one down Jenn. Getting to be too much like some other forums. Point has been made, the rest can be handled privately.

FYI, I left before the results were posted, was there some technical issues? I only ask because usually you guys have them posted Monday morning and sometimes Sunday night (which is absolutely incredible)....

Well, I hav e recieved an email............and it asked I put this on the forum

The guy, after his comment, did go help. I thanked him when it was over and got the same comment again. But he did help.


and uh huh................

Dustin was traveling on business this past weekend and was unable to be at the races. Tyler is learning and the two need to find time to get together to do the upload to the system.

I'm also aware the drops are not calculating properly and will get with Bud on that piece.

Thank you,
Jenn

If you fell my reply needs to be removed then remove it.
The girl rider pointed out the staff member in question to me. Told me the very same story Liss & Chad did. Those 3 have unquestionable character. No reason to doubt it. There comes a time to stand up for what's right.

In other words... you were not there and you do not have first-hand knowledge of what happened. Just by reading your post I could tell - I did my research and I'll be speaking to the rider this involved.

I will remove your post for you.

Thank you,
Jenn