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#361803 - 07/14/08 12:08 AM Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road
nujac Offline
TON Member

Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 86
Loc: Comal County
It would be nice to have a sticky post on how to tell if you are on a private or county road in the different counties in Texas. For example it seems that around the hill country the red street signs with only one blue address sign are normally posted has a private road. But if the red street sign has more than one blue address sign it can be driven on. I think I read somewhere that as part of the new EMS guide lines that if it is was a private shared road it was to be turned over to the county for easy access. I do not know this for a fact and it would be nice to know what is legal.

In east Texas does anyone know how to tell if a forest road is open to the public. I was riding around Toledo Ben a few weeks back and was often trying to figure out what was legal. Over there it seems people are able to lease land from the forest service for a deer lease off of the forest service roads but I am not sure once they have it leased is it off limits to the public.

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#361804 - 07/14/08 04:06 PM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: nujac]
Irishcoffee Offline
Veteran Lunatic

Registered: 08/17/02
Posts: 2755
Loc: TEXAS
In the Toledo Bend, Sam Rayburn area the forest rangers make up their own laws and regulations on the fly. Whatever suits their needs and prejudices are fine and are backed by the fed judge in Lufkin. Be warned.

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#361805 - 07/17/08 01:11 AM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: Irishcoffee]
nujac Offline
TON Member

Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 86
Loc: Comal County

What is wrong with the State of Texas. I just got back from a week of back road riding in Colorado around Crested Butte. I was in a 4x4 SUV along with dirbikes, ATVs and Jeeps. It seemed to be one big happy family and the local forest service seemed to be helpful to everyone. Also evey hotel room in Gunison was filled up.

Just think what what happen to Jasper, Lufkin and the surrounding towns if the forest service would treat the public right and open the forest roads and trails like they did in the 1970s. All the hotels and camps around Toledo Bend and Sam Rayburn would be filled up. Shops and eating places would pop up everywhere. Talk about a boom to the tax base in east Texas. Surely someone in Texas division of the forest service has been to other parts of the country and seen what type of money the offroad commuinity brings in.

I know you have me ranting and rolling, but let me roll a little bit more. Take Moab Ut. without the offroad communty they have almost no tax base. In Moab they have no problem giving tickets to the ones that are causing problems and all of the rest of us they treat like human beings. From what I hear about East Texas no matter how nice you are, even if you have a full head of gray hair and look like you just came back from church they treat you worst that if you just escaped from the local jail. Now does that make since? East Texas is starving for jobs and tax money. They have more public land than they know what to do with but can not put 2 + 2 together.

I could go on but my blood pressure is only rising. The worst thing about going to Colorado is coming back and seeing how bad you have been screwed by being driven out of the forest. That load of bull about hurting the pine forest is unbelievable. Correct me if I am wrong but what is wrong with the offroad community riding in an area that the forest service is going to let the timber companies clear cut anyway. Most people driving around East Texas think that they are surrounded by Pine Trees. If they were to get out of their cars and just walk a 100 yards into the woods they would find a lot of times only clear cut section with no trees at all. And in the areas where there are no plans to every cut down the trees at least let us run on the fire roads. And if the Forest service catches anyone tearing up stuff they should do just like the Moab UT officers do give them a ticket or take them to jail.

This ends part one of my ranting and raving.

Thanks for your time
nujac


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#361806 - 07/17/08 09:37 PM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: nujac]
DougRoost Offline
Gang Boss

Registered: 03/14/02
Posts: 408
Loc: Austin
I agree wholeheartedly with your points on open access to public lands being good for the economy and all. I grew up in Missouri and we were blessed with so many parks and forest lands I just assumed it was that way everywhere.

However, my understanding is most of the land in Texas is private, going back to land grants for those who fought in a war. Are you sure all that land in East Texas is public?
_________________________
Doug

KTM 300 E/XC, changing my oil 7,500 times per minute!
Austin MotoSports Association www.amsaclub.org

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#361807 - 07/17/08 10:05 PM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: DougRoost]
Dave Offline
AMSA Gang Boss

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 2348
Loc: Spicewood
I grew up riding up in the East Texas piney woods around the areas you guys speak of and the deal is...the locals don't want a bunch of yahoos from Austin, San Antonio, Houston, etc. up there. Period. They dont care about the tax base, the revenues, more restaurants, hotels, the added traffic...I could go on and on. They want those woods to themselves. That's why we rarely go back. We are outsiders and they are quick to show you the highway. "You ain't from around here, are ya boy?"
There are lots of inholdings...private properties surrounded by the Nat. Forest.
This is just my observations and two cents over the past 30+ years...and it pisses me off too.

_________________________
Dave
Austin MotoSports Association


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#361808 - 07/18/08 05:09 PM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: Dave]
Irishcoffee Offline
Veteran Lunatic

Registered: 08/17/02
Posts: 2755
Loc: TEXAS
You nailed it Dave. Very sad situation. And if you are fishing on Toledo or Rayburn you better not have ANY beer or other alcohol on board. Its truly worse than any movie you have seen. Be warned.

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#361809 - 07/25/08 01:25 PM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: Irishcoffee]
Greg Offline
Vet AMSA Director

Registered: 12/18/00
Posts: 1277
Loc: Austin, TX
Wow, busting fishermen for drinking? If you can't drink while fishing, what the heck are you supposed to do while you're watching that bobber?

Things are truly out of control in that part of Texas.

Greg

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#361810 - 10/04/08 01:55 AM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: Greg]
nujac Offline
TON Member

Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 86
Loc: Comal County
New type of sign seen in the Hill Country. This sign looked like it replaced a private property sign. This dirt road had about 6 gates on the 10 mile distance. All gates had chains to latch the gates but no locks.


Attachments
554301-dirt road sign.jpg (223 downloads)


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#361811 - 10/04/08 02:03 AM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: nujac]
nujac Offline
TON Member

Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 86
Loc: Comal County
Red Street signs on dirt roads south of Lake Travis seem to be private roads. Rode my DRZ down one and a lady stopped me in a pick up truck to warn me I was fixing to get shot. I pulled off my helment to show her I had more gray hair than her hoping to calm her down. She was very angry and repeated the possiblity of getting shot. Her spose was in the truck and seemed to be embarssed about her outburst but did not stop her from ranting.

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#361812 - 10/04/08 07:13 PM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: nujac]
Irishcoffee Offline
Veteran Lunatic

Registered: 08/17/02
Posts: 2755
Loc: TEXAS
Still hoping for "factual" info on deciphering private from public. Thanks.

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#361813 - 10/05/08 01:24 PM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: Irishcoffee]
nujac Offline
TON Member

Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 86
Loc: Comal County
I have been hearing that new EMS rules are opening up private roads that have three or more people living on that road. I search the Internet but have not found anything in writing.

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#361814 - 10/07/08 02:09 AM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: nujac]
nujac Offline
TON Member

Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 86
Loc: Comal County
Attached is a pictured of a purple post located on the Pedernales River in the Hill Country. When it was legal to ride in the riverbeds with a motorcycle, ATV, or 4x4 a purple post was the limit of how far one could travel out of the riverbed. Riverbeds can still be legally ridden in the Panhandle and one river in the hill country. I do not remember the name or part of the hill Country River that it was legal. Looking at the fresh paint job on this post I was wondering if anyone had any new information on what it might mean under the current Texas laws.


Attachments
554709-purple post.jpg (131 downloads)



Edited by nujac (10/07/08 02:12 AM)

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#361815 - 10/07/08 12:21 PM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: nujac]
Dave Offline
AMSA Gang Boss

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 2348
Loc: Spicewood
Quoting Sec. 30.05. Criminal Trespass
(a) A person commits an offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or he enters or remains in a building of another without effective consent and he:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or

(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so. (b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.

(2) "Notice" means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;

(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;

(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;

(D) the placement of identifying purple paint marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks are:
(i) vertical lines of not less than eight inches in length and not less than one inch in width;

(ii) placed so that the bottom of the mark is not less than three feet from the ground or more than five feet from the ground; and

(iii) placed at locations that are readily visible to any person approaching the property and no more than:
(a) 100 feet apart on forest land; or

(b) 1,000 feet apart on land other than forest land; or
(E) the visible presence on the property of a crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time of entry.
_________________________
Dave
Austin MotoSports Association


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#361816 - 10/08/08 09:58 PM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: Dave]
Irishcoffee Offline
Veteran Lunatic

Registered: 08/17/02
Posts: 2755
Loc: TEXAS
What is the correlation between your post and an open road?

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#361817 - 10/08/08 11:40 PM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: Dave]
Tominator Offline
Poet At Large

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 3923
In reply to:

(D) the placement of identifying purple paint marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks are:
(i) vertical lines of not less than eight inches in length and not less than one inch in width;

(ii) placed so that the bottom of the mark is not less than three feet from the ground or more than five feet from the ground; and

(iii) placed at locations that are readily visible to any person approaching the property and no more than:
(a) 100 feet apart on forest land; or

(b) 1,000 feet apart on land other than forest land; or




Thanks Dave for clearing up the Purple Post question. It's nice to have a "deep source" who can dig up some otherwise unknown facts for us bikers, both on and off road.

_________________________
"I'm neither Conservative nor Liberal, I'm Considerable!"

Tom Bailey
Team BFD
KTM 5-sumthin

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#361818 - 10/09/08 01:05 PM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: Tominator]
Dave Offline
AMSA Gang Boss

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 2348
Loc: Spicewood
We have some new folks down the ranch road from us that have painted all their fence posts PURPLE and I gotta tell ya, it uglied up their 40 acre waterfront place big time. I should have known when the first thing they did when the built their "compound" was cut down all the trees. I guess trees block the view thru their scope. Don't dare go near them unless ya have a thing for hot lead. That's definately not typical of the locals. The Mom and her 8 year old daughter actually told one of my neighbors that they shoot first and ask questions later! Nice.

Anyway, I would highly caution against riding down any roads that have unlocked gates across them. Been there, done that, not doing it again.
_________________________
Dave
Austin MotoSports Association


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#361819 - 10/09/08 07:56 PM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: Dave]
Irishcoffee Offline
Veteran Lunatic

Registered: 08/17/02
Posts: 2755
Loc: TEXAS
Have never seen purple paint in my area. What about open, non-gated dirt roads that have a cattle guard? Usually no signs. I figure the land is private but is the road public?

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#361820 - 10/09/08 10:14 PM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: Irishcoffee]
Dave Offline
AMSA Gang Boss

Registered: 02/13/01
Posts: 2348
Loc: Spicewood
I would check and see if it's on any maps you have. I think it's safe to say that if it shows up on maps that are available to the public, they "should be" deemed public roads. I will check with my connections at TXDOT next week to see if we can shed more light on the subject. We have a lot of ranch/county roads in my area (35miles west of Austin) that have no gates but with cattle guards. Nearly all of these roads have a county sign at the entrance to the road. These of course are perfectly legal to travel. As I mentioned above, I personally will not go thru anyones gate unless it's marked as an official county access road.

The purple marked fences are a relatively new thing but we are seeing more and more of them in the Hill Country as time goes on. I undestand why they do it but why in the heck did they have to choose purple?? LOL...not my favorite color but whatever!
_________________________
Dave
Austin MotoSports Association


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#361821 - 10/10/08 06:13 PM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: Dave]
DeeKay Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 1149
Loc: DeeKay Island
Hey DUDES,

SIMPLE, really. Purple is used in Mexico to designate PRIVATE LAND too! The pastel "purple" is cheaper than signs AND no one can argue that they didn't understand the language.

But, point well made is, some folks in national forests and BLM lands in New Mexico have started splashing purple all over....and clearly some of it is like the game you see in Austin where on public streets you find RESIDENT PARKING ONLY signs in front of houses.

While it is public parking on a public street you can bet your ride is at risk of flatted tires, vandalism, etc if you park in front of one of these BOGUS signs.

In the end, like the Devil's River....they whats gots guns, wins! Devil's River is navigable and therefore is PUBLIC access by canoe. However, adjacent land owners have been known to take shots at people to try and scare them away.

It is difficult to prove (unless you get hit) so the local law enforcement, who by definition are LOCAL...typically side with the property rights folks and claim there is no evidence.

SO, Dave, I agree.....be very careful around the purple. It could get you shot.

Deekay
_________________________
I was EXTREME....
Before Extreme was cool!

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#361822 - 02/22/09 01:33 AM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: DeeKay]
DSSD230 Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 1
Loc: Telephone TX
I live in Fannin county and up here there is no way to tell if you are on a private road or not. It has happened to me several times just roll up into someones drive and not realize it untill you're at the porch of there house. It would be nice to have some kind of system so that we would know. This also happened to me at beaversbend in Oklahoma. I met the owner as I was pulling out. he chased me in his car untill I lost him on a logging raod.

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#571960 - 08/26/14 09:28 PM Re: Sticky on how to tell if you are on a private road [Re: DSSD230]
450Gunner Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 12/06/05
Posts: 1069
Loc: Katy, TX.
You would think the landowners would be nice about it. Just ask us to leave and we will, heck don't shoot me for a simple mistake!!
_________________________
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