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#353689 - 05/15/08 07:33 AM Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed
EMARacing Offline
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Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 1273
Loc: Round Rock, TX
I'm converting our new 6X10 enclosed trailer to a mini-mini toy hauler. I've already built a fold down bed and now am looking for cool air for those hot summer nights where we don't want to take the RV.

I know a 13.5 roof air will be more than enough, but total cost with install and wiring is going to run between $700-800. Going the cheaper route a window unit from one of the box stores I can cut that cost in half. The roof of the trailer will be insulated.

I guess my big question is will a window unit be enough? Or should I just pony up and get the overkill with reserve in the roof air?

Does anyone currently have a window unit in an enclosed trailer and does it cool enough at night to have to sleep under the covers?
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DLR Cycleworks
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#353690 - 05/15/08 09:00 AM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: EMARacing]
Fender_Bender Offline
Veteran Lunatic

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 4437
Loc: Hamilton, Tx
John
The 6.5 x 16 foot enclosed trailer we had, had a 6000 btu air conditioner mounted
in the front, blowing to the back. It was WAY more than we needed. Never did we
use it on hi and turned it off most of the time. I even went as far as to build cabinets
on both sides.....
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#353691 - 05/15/08 12:23 PM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: EMARacing]
pmkkdx Offline
Have map. Will travel!

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 4473
Loc: Central Texas, USA, Earth (mos...
the attachment is cut n pasted out of one of links below to help determine btu for the size area ... I think a 5000 btu should do fine since you are only cooling 60 sq. ft. but slightly larger would add a little insurance for really hot & humid days.

bigger isn't neccessarily better in determining what size a/c unit to use. if you have too big of an a/c unit, it will cool the area much quicker and cycle off. this will result in not properly dehumidifying the area leaving it with a cool and clammy feel. likewise, if you use a generator with to big of a a/c unit that cycles frequently since it's cooling much quicker, that could cause undue stress on the generator causing issues there also... (ha, I had to really think about that to keep it from sounding XXX rated )

here are a couple of links to some pretty informative reading dealing with air conditioning and basis for determining size for cooling & dehumidification. (using the html version, some of the tables might drop off)

Principles of Air Conditioning


Air Conditioners - How to Choose a Cooling System


Sears has several 5000-7000 btu window units that should do very well ... even one starting at $99.


Attachments
527445-airconditioningtable.jpg (66 downloads)

_________________________
--------------
~':/ Marcus \:'~
Laughter is the best medicine!!!
(I only have to amuse myself)

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#353692 - 05/15/08 06:02 PM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: EMARacing]
EMARacing Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 1273
Loc: Round Rock, TX
Thanks for the feedback guys. That makes my decision much easier. Looks like the $99 Sears special is right in my budget and size I need. Now a small quiet genny that will run it and recharge some batteries and I'll be set.
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John E. Walker
#44
DLR Cycleworks
Central Texas PowerSports
HP Bikes
Answer Racing

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#353693 - 05/16/08 12:56 PM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: EMARacing]
pmkkdx Offline
Have map. Will travel!

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 4473
Loc: Central Texas, USA, Earth (mos...
going with the $99 a/c should leave you a bit more room on the generator to go a bit higher (and quieter) model.
_________________________
--------------
~':/ Marcus \:'~
Laughter is the best medicine!!!
(I only have to amuse myself)

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#353694 - 05/16/08 09:40 PM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: pmkkdx]
yzracer Offline
Veteran Lunatic

Registered: 01/05/01
Posts: 1779
Loc: Beaumont Tx
John, the Honda generators are about the quietest Ive seen. A little pricey but well worth the extra bucks. I bought one after the Hurricane, its a 3000is and it ran our house plus a window unit with no problem. They make smaller units also.
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TORCS # 320
2012 YZ450F

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#353695 - 05/16/08 09:56 PM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: yzracer]
EMARacing Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 1273
Loc: Round Rock, TX
I've been really impressed with the Champion generator, 3500W 30A RV plug, $289 at tractor supply. Not as quiet as a Honda, but really quiet compared to contractor generators. Only problem is its kinda big and overkill for what I need. But for the price I can't go wrong. Oh yeah, you can also get a 4 year replacement warranty for $70.
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John E. Walker
#44
DLR Cycleworks
Central Texas PowerSports
HP Bikes
Answer Racing

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#353696 - 05/20/08 09:27 PM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: EMARacing]
srsonicseller Offline
Gang Veteran

Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 910
Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas
We had a champion generator on our toyhauler, it worked great. Never had a problem. It was not as loud as some other generators we have had.
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#353697 - 06/11/08 04:22 PM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: srsonicseller]
Irishcoffee Offline
Veteran Lunatic

Registered: 08/17/02
Posts: 2206
Loc: TEXAS
And temp add on mufflers are a dime a dozen among dbr's. Little flex hose and you're done.

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#353698 - 08/09/08 11:24 PM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: Irishcoffee]
atvmxr Offline
New Boot

Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 15
Loc: Black Cat Ridge, TX
so you are cutting a hole in the front of your trailer for the window unit? any issue with the window unit seeing 60-70 mph winds while in transport? I have one of those 6x10 cheapy trailers from Lowes and I want to start making it more comfortable for over night trips.

id appreciate any pics you guys can take to give me some ideas...

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#353699 - 08/11/08 08:24 AM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: atvmxr]
EMARacing Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 1273
Loc: Round Rock, TX
Thanks to Marcus and a few other people a lot more enginuitive than I am I got my 5K btu window unit mounted on the nose of my trailer down low by the tounge. We used the trailer floor and internal brackets (attached to the trailer frame inside the walls) Marcus hooked me up on to brace it. No visible supports and a very clean install.

The window unit I picked up from Sears has upward facing vents hence the reason we mounted it low. I insulated the ceiling with Reflectix insulation which is an aluminum insulation normally used in roofs for houses. It looks like an aluminum roll of bubble wrap. Things stay nice and cool even on these triple digit days. Haven't slept in it overnight yet with the A/C, but I can imagine I will need plenty of blankets.

I'll try to get some photo's today.
_________________________
John E. Walker
#44
DLR Cycleworks
Central Texas PowerSports
HP Bikes
Answer Racing

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#353700 - 08/11/08 03:36 PM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: EMARacing]
EMARacing Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 1273
Loc: Round Rock, TX
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p351/EMARacing/Trailer/SDC10755.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p351/EMARacing/Trailer/SDC10754.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p351/EMARacing/Trailer/SDC10749.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p351/EMARacing/Trailer/SDC10750.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p351/EMARacing/Trailer/SDC10751.jpg
http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p351/EMARacing/Trailer/SDC10757.jpg

Next step the trailer is going back to Ken Ingam (Garage Interiors) who epoxied the floors and he's going to build custom cabinets up front to hold/hang gear and flush mount a 15" LCD with built in DVD player. That should make it close to done. No wait, then there's the awning and the.............
_________________________
John E. Walker
#44
DLR Cycleworks
Central Texas PowerSports
HP Bikes
Answer Racing

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#353701 - 08/12/08 06:46 AM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: EMARacing]
pmkkdx Offline
Have map. Will travel!

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 4473
Loc: Central Texas, USA, Earth (mos...
just a quick observation. use caution with that tool box mounted in front of the cooling coils during extreme heat conditions ... might even want to set the tool box off the tongue when running if you have it set up to be removed easily. the lack of air flow might cause the unit to overheat ... couldn't tell how much clearance there is between the coil fins & the tool box.

otherwise, looks good.
_________________________
--------------
~':/ Marcus \:'~
Laughter is the best medicine!!!
(I only have to amuse myself)

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#353702 - 08/12/08 07:11 AM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: pmkkdx]
EMARacing Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 1273
Loc: Round Rock, TX
I had thought of that, so I made the box quick release. But here is the clearance.

http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p351/EMARacing/Trailer/SDC10758.jpg

_________________________
John E. Walker
#44
DLR Cycleworks
Central Texas PowerSports
HP Bikes
Answer Racing

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#353703 - 08/12/08 10:51 PM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: EMARacing]
atvmxr Offline
New Boot

Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 15
Loc: Black Cat Ridge, TX
nice looking setup! so no need for any additional brackets, cool (literally I guess, lol)

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#353704 - 08/13/08 09:52 AM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: EMARacing]
pmkkdx Offline
Have map. Will travel!

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 4473
Loc: Central Texas, USA, Earth (mos...
personally, I would remove the tool box for air flow when the a/c is in use.
_________________________
--------------
~':/ Marcus \:'~
Laughter is the best medicine!!!
(I only have to amuse myself)

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#414027 - 05/10/09 01:35 PM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: pmkkdx]
spidennis Offline
Hall of Fame

Registered: 03/23/01
Posts: 1212
Loc: S. Padre Island, Texas
I think I finally found my new enclosed aluminum trailer, so I'm gonna be thinking about how to install an ac unit that I already have. I'd like something not permanent maybe? I'll be having double barn doors, so may have it sit on the floor of the open barn door and have something cover up the opening?

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#417725 - 06/04/09 12:46 AM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: spidennis]
Opcom Offline
TON Member

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 86
Loc: Dallas, Texas
EMARacing - I like that bunk idea! It is also obvious you mounted the a/c with its center of gravity close to the supporting wall. Important point that some people don't think of.

For general window a/c mounting - Mounting it up higher will make it work better if the idea is to cool the entire space. Keeping the roof white and -clean- will do alot of good to reflecting the sun's rays. Put some foam insulation there between your wood walls and the outer skin. If you add a second a/c, putting it up higher above the first one would work well.

I'm cooling about the same area, maybe 7w X 6.5H x 12L and a single 8000 BTU wouldn't do it due to the dark colors, people constantly opening the hatch, and the radio and computer gear generating more heat inside. Measurements showed 100 deg outside air, outer skin 120 deg, inner skin 79 deg. Added a home made 12000BTU unit that kicks on when the interior temp rises above 70. It stays frosty-cold in there now. The pic shows both a/c units. The driver side is the 8000 BTU unit, and the pass side is the condensing unit for the 12000BTU (the evap is inside). Details on hanging the 65 LB evaporator with uni-strut are below, but you might want to reinforce the front wall of a trailer. The shelter I have is already pretty strong but I still used generous bracing with bolts through through the skeleton inside the foam-filled 2" walls.
hanging an a/c evap with unistrut

part II - the inside unit

This might not be what you want to do but it has been on that offroad truck for 3 years and hasn't moved. The topside of the 12000 BTU unit also supports the GPS radome and a solargizer panel. I thought those things were hogwash, but tried one and will never go without again.

installing the 8000BTU window unit

The 2-stage A/C approach works well, with the large unit only coming on when necessary and the small unit running continuously, saves fuel in the generator over having one single large unit. I did not use military a/c units because they are hard to find, expensive, hard to work on, and very heavy, like 200 lbs each.


Edited by justburnitout (06/04/09 01:29 AM)
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"M8109" custom 6x6 truck
radio gear & BBQ grille

Our machines feed the furnace. If they take us they will burn us.

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#417726 - 06/04/09 01:08 AM Re: Roof air VS window unit for 6X10 enclosed [Re: spidennis]
Opcom Offline
TON Member

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 86
Loc: Dallas, Texas
Originally Posted By: spidennis
I think I finally found my new enclosed aluminum trailer, so I'm gonna be thinking about how to install an ac unit that I already have. I'd like something not permanent maybe? I'll be having double barn doors, so may have it sit on the floor of the open barn door and have something cover up the opening?


That has been done with canvas that snaps to the sides and top, but it is leaky and really inefficient, so you need a much bigger a/c unit than otherwise. With some ingenuity, it could be improved, like using a mover's quilt for insulation.

Can you put it permanently in the side, flush? In an old bread truck I put a 1-ton unit, of the type where the guts slide out its front, on the floor fully inside. Cut a hole in the vehicle side to just fit the unit flush to the outside so the hot air blew out there. Sealed the condenser air intakes and cut a hole in the unit's cabinet top to match the unit's internal condensing unit geometry and built a duct about 12" square running 5FT up the wall then a 90 out through the wall flush with the outside and used a home-type central air intake louver grille to finish that externally and keep rain out. The inside cold air output on the front of the a/c where those louvers go was sealed and another hole through the a/c top was run through another duct 12x16" straight up to the ceiling and up there I cut generous holes and put a couple interior house type a/c registers in, one facing the inside of the truck side and one to the rear. It worked great. The large size duct might seem like overkill, but the air resistance must be minimized because the unit's fans are not designed to push air through ductwork so I used the biggest I could fit in. From the outside, all that was visible was 2 grilles, and from the inside, the completed piece of machinery was the footprint of the a/c unit, from floor to ceiling. I reinforced all of it by building a set of gear shelves out of unistrut next to it and attached.

A lesson learned from putting window a/c's in vehicles that are subject to being on uneven ground: Always tilt the unit so the front is almost 2" higher than the rear or the condensate will not drain but will back up into the evaporator core pan and there will soon be water the floor from an overflow.

also, for any duct that will carry cold air, use insulated duct to avoid the outside of the metal duct "sweating".


Edited by justburnitout (06/04/09 01:11 AM)
_________________________
Yamaha Wolverine
"M8109" custom 6x6 truck
radio gear & BBQ grille

Our machines feed the furnace. If they take us they will burn us.

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